I've been talking in depth lately with friends about cash games and where to the real value lies. It seems after much debate that I personally think most people are mistaken in their assessments of where to find value. Hopefully today I will be able to make my point clear to you and open your eyes to the biggest value in cash games- the other regulars!
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Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:33 pm Posts: 557 Location: Wherever the bed bugs call home
Agreed, I prefer playing against regs because I already know their style, patterns, tells, perception of me, etc. Even if they are slightly better than unknowns on average (technically, as in, hands played from what position, pot odds, etc), just the fact that you don't know how to categorize unknowns is more costly for me than playing against regs.
I haven't been playing much 2-5 lately, but at 1-2 I love walking in the room and seeing 5 faces I know at the table (same was true at 2-5 when I played it more frequently). I have a fairly good memory, so I know what I've shown down and how they've reacted. I.E. Older asian man thinks I'm crazy because I was on an epic heater and was stacking people left and right, mostly with marginal hands, because I was goofing around "playing my rush." Or, older white lady thinks I'm a nit because I played 3 hands in 4 hours and then 1 hand in 2 hours the two times I've played with her (dreadfully card dead).
You also get those regulars who are so focused on the fish, they refuse to tangle with you after you demonstrate competency - C/R them, see what happens (Fold).
Then you have others, who will defend their right to pursue the fish, and won't let you take over - a dynamic that leads to "I caught a piece, I'm all in" between the two of you - the looks on the other players' faces is priceless.
Early detection and the ability to wipe your perception of others clean = profit. For example, if I'm the old lady and then I see NPS (yeah, that's 3rd person, bitch) open 69s from HJ and two barrel, I may want to reconsider "nit."
Man, I love poker, I really want to play now.
_________________ "I would rather make the gravest of mistakes than surrender my own judgment. "
Interesting comments. I'm an "older Asian man" who plays mostly "home games" but also visits LV (6-8) times per year and also NOLA and AC (1 time each year). I have a winning rate of around $25+/hr. I have a higher winning rate at LV, NOLA and AC, where I mostly play 2/5. The home games are 1/2 or 1/3 but play closer to 2/5. While I'm generally a cash game player, I played in 2 of this year's Caesar's Mega Stack tournaments and cashed in both. In the Seniors' I finished in the 40's that paid the top 90 (out of 811) and in the Championship I finished in the 60's that paid the top 180 (out of 1602). While I generally play TAG, I usually play a few (3-5) hands each night out of character, love 6-3 suited) raising when in position. I think my lesser winning rate at home is due to more LAG players creating more variance. As a former CPA I understand the math but I consider my best skill is reading players betting patterns so, based on your comments, I should do better at home. Any thoughts?
Agreed. The pure amount of information that we have on other regulars is more profitable than what we can typically learn about a below average new player at the table and try to exploit. Also, I find that picking on the weakest of the regs slows down more competent regs against us and inherently allows us to exploit the competent ones somewhat as well.
Interesting article and a concept I had not given much thought. Thanks for all the great posts.
I will add one more thought that I have had. I play in a regular home game. I have really tried to spend my time focusing on the play (mostly betting patterns) of my games two loosest players. Sure, I understand all the regulars in my game to a reasonably amount. But I have really been focusing the bulk of my attention of the two loosest players. The reality is that I play half my pots against these two players, because they are the most likely to call my raises or, in one case, be a pre-flop raiser. So, if I am going to play an abnormally large percent of pots against these two players (given their styles), I am going to spend an abnormal amount of time study their patterns before I move over to other players (some of whom play tighter, so they are already at least a bit easier to read). I certainly agree with the concept in the article of familiarity being an advantage against more skilled players....
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:33 pm Posts: 557 Location: Wherever the bed bugs call home
TheGameKat wrote:
But what if everyone thought like that, Yossarian?
All other variables being equal (patience, technicals, tilt control), then Excitement must be greater than Rake.
Some do, and that's when the game gets really fun: trying to figure out whether they are playing you, your cards and vv to the nth level as the hand is developing is what it's all about!
One last thing, it isn't just enough to think it, there is still the matter of who is better at it (better at statement 2).
allin67 wrote:
The reality is that I play half my pots against these two players, because they are the most likely to call my raises or, in one case, be a pre-flop raiser. So, if I am going to play an abnormally large percent of pots against these two players (given their styles), I am going to spend an abnormal amount of time study their patterns before I move over to other players (some of whom play tighter, so they are already at least a bit easier to read). I certainly agree with the concept in the article of familiarity being an advantage against more skilled players....
I'm going to C/R you
_________________ "I would rather make the gravest of mistakes than surrender my own judgment. "
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:43 pm Posts: 746 Location: Las Vegas
Well right your last thing is critical; you have to be a reg that is better than the regs. Now as Benton pointed out, his analysis is more directed to 2/5. I'd suggest that at 1/2 the regs are weaker, but the recreational players span the range from "meh" to "bwahahaha." And since I am not a particularly skilled NLHE player (2 cards good, 4 cards better), it is easier for me to beat up on Mr. Bwahahaha than a semi-competent reg.
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love 6-3 suited) raising when in position. I think my lesser winning rate at home is due to more LAG players creating more variance. As a former CPA I understand the math but I consider my best skill is reading players betting patterns so, based on your comments, I should do better at home. Any thoughts?
