Hi everybody - first post here. I am going to Vegas in June to play NLHE for the first time. Just in the 1-2/1-3 games. I have been reading Harrington on Cash Games and all of his examples deal with your opponents raising usually with 3 big blinds. I was reading "Catching Fish" and the author stated at 1-2 NL the usual pre-flop raise was more like 5-6 big blinds up to 10. I have only played LHE so I was curious which you would think is more realistic for the strip in Vegas. Thanks for any help.
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:51 pm Posts: 203 Location: East Bay, CA
At the 1/2 level 5-6BB is not too high or unusual for a preflop raise. 3BB usually gets almost everybody calling. Harrington is probably referencing 2/5 and above where players are better and ~3BB makes more sense.
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:43 pm Posts: 752 Location: Las Vegas
I think the important point to understand is that the sizes of the open raises have to be understood in the context of the stack sizes at the table. For example even relatively small open raises make it hard to play speculative hands if the opener is short-stacking. On the other hand if you're super deep with the raiser you can flat with speculative hands even against a 10x open raise.
At the 1/2 or 1/3 level, you can expect to have several people in most pots unless you make a pre-flop raise to at least $12 or so. At $12, you will usually get one or two callers. Even a pre-flop raise to $25 will as often as not get you one or two callers.
If I am sitting on QQ, KK, or AA, I will generally raise to at least $17 to narrow the field to one or two callers. Rarely will such a raise chase everyone else out. If I have a good drawing hand I will either simply call the big blind or raise to to $5 or $7. I will have plenty of opportunity to build the pot post-flop if I hit my draw, especially with several people calling the blinds and averse to getting away from mediocre hands.
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:16 pm Posts: 995 Location: The OC
JamieTee wrote:
If I am sitting on QQ, KK, or AA, I will generally raise to at least $17 to narrow the field to one or two callers. Rarely will such a raise chase everyone else out. If I have a good drawing hand I will either simply call the big blind or raise to to $5 or $7. I will have plenty of opportunity to build the pot post-flop if I hit my draw, especially with several people calling the blinds and averse to getting away from mediocre hands.
I'd be careful with this raising strategy. It wouldnt take long to easily put you on a hand if you vary your raises purely on the strength of your hand.
If Im raising preflop, its pretty much always 3-4x the bb +1 bb for each limper regardless of the strength of my hand.
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 3:13 am Posts: 97 Location: Las Vegas
JamieTee wrote:
At the 1/2 or 1/3 level, you can expect to have several people in most pots unless you make a pre-flop raise to at least $12 or so. At $12, you will usually get one or two callers. Even a pre-flop raise to $25 will as often as not get you one or two callers.
If I am sitting on QQ, KK, or AA, I will generally raise to at least $17 to narrow the field to one or two callers. Rarely will such a raise chase everyone else out. If I have a good drawing hand I will either simply call the big blind or raise to to $5 or $7. I will have plenty of opportunity to build the pot post-flop if I hit my draw, especially with several people calling the blinds and averse to getting away from mediocre hands.
If you are varying your raise sizes in this fashion its going to be very easy to play against and take advantage of. If you are playing 1/3 $12 is plenty if your the first in the pot. Make sure to keep your raises the same with every hand you decide to raise with if not let me know where and when you are playing.
I have found that the pre-flop raise amounts vary by game. It is not uncommon for a standard pre-flop raise to be 4-7 BB's. Some games are more passive with more players willing to limp or just raise 3 BB's as a standard with most of the table coming along.
When I started playing NL cash games I was expecting 3-4 BB's to be standard but learned that is not normally the case. It did take a little while to get used to but I got there. At a typical game a 3 BB raise will not thin the herd as much as you would probably like with a premium hand.
Also, in my limited 2-5 experience I have found that a 5 BB open raise is not uncommon. Is this typical?
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:43 pm Posts: 752 Location: Las Vegas
valuebet4 wrote:
JamieTee wrote:
If I am sitting on QQ, KK, or AA, I will generally raise to at least $17 to narrow the field to one or two callers. Rarely will such a raise chase everyone else out. If I have a good drawing hand I will either simply call the big blind or raise to to $5 or $7. I will have plenty of opportunity to build the pot post-flop if I hit my draw, especially with several people calling the blinds and averse to getting away from mediocre hands.
If you are varying your raise sizes in this fashion its going to be very easy to play against and take advantage of. If you are playing 1/3 $12 is plenty if your the first in the pot. Make sure to keep your raises the same with every hand you decide to raise with if not let me know where and when you are playing.
Not sure about "very" easy and more importantly most of the 1/2 and 1/3 opposition won't take advantage of you. The reality is that different hands prefer different raise sizes and until someone starts exploiting the information your sizing gives, raise the optimal amount for a given hand.
I have found that the pre-flop raise amounts vary by game. It is not uncommon for a standard pre-flop raise to be 4-7 BB's. Some games are more passive with more players willing to limp or just raise 3 BB's as a standard with most of the table coming along.
When I started playing NL cash games I was expecting 3-4 BB's to be standard but learned that is not normally the case. It did take a little while to get used to but I got there. At a typical game a 3 BB raise will not thin the herd as much as you would probably like with a premium hand.
Also, in my limited 2-5 experience I have found that a 5 BB open raise is not uncommon. Is this typical?
In my limited experience playing live 1/2 NL my standard open is $10 but in 2/5 my standard ipen is $20 and I add 1bb to my size for every limper before me.....regardless of hand strength. Please don't size raises based on hand strength. Even at 1/2 a casual player will still pick up on that and adjust without even knowing they're adjusting.
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