Hi to all, i 'd like to share with you a tough decision that I had to make in a hand that I played horribly. Situation: MTT, 14 players, 70$ buy in, 15k, 25 min, first level of blind 25-50 Blind 25-50, Hero in sb got AQo. As usual in these tournaments, a lot of limping in first level: 4 limpers, two players that I don't know, one tight passive and one TAG. I decide to disguise the strongness of my hand since I know on the four even if I raise like 250 i'll have 2 call (one from the TAG, one from one of the two that I don't know) and so limp on the big blind, which is a good friend of mine that love make huge PF-raises with small-middle pairs. BB make it 350, all limpers fold, and as my read is i decide to play the flip coin. pot is now 900, flop A-K-10 rainbow. Hero decides to play it smooth i check, BB bets 550. Hero calls pot 2000, turn: 7. hero check, BB bets 900, hero calls pot 3800, river: Q and no flush draw entered. Hero checks, BB bets 1700 Hero should? my thoughts: Firstly i put him on the small pair (77-88-99), and decide to induce a bluff from his side on the flop and fourth street. On turn I begin to fear AK, but on the river since he bets i put him on three possible hands: AJ, JJ, or a small pair, all other hands that beat me would have been checked on the river. I know that i played the hand not really well, but since I was very aggressive from the beggining I wanted to change a bit my play. All comments welcome, and sorry for my English I'm not from US.
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 3908 Location: Manassas, VA
First, You're English is fine and thanks for posting.
Second, this hand is a classic example of why you don't want to play hands out of position. There's simply no good way to play this hand post flop on that board.
You need to raise preflop for many reasons:
1) You almost certainly have the best hand and want to get value 2) AQ doesn't really play well against 5 other people especially out of position. Sometimes even when you hit your A or Q you will run into two pair or better 3) Most important of all, you are out of position
If you raise and everybody folds that is a good thing. Try to determine the proper amount to raise and get folds or at least only one caller. I'd raise it up to 300 or 400 if you think 250 i not enough. If you get flatted be prepared to lead out against almost any flop.
At this point on the river, I think there is no way he only has something like 88 or 99 and is bluffing. it just doesn't fit the hand at all.
Do you have any reads on what your friend thinks of you? Is he willing to fire three bluffs? Will he continue betting a hand like AK here? What does the size of his turn bet mean? Is he milking you along or not sure if he has the best hand? If it was a friend of mine I would prob have a general idea on his range based on his bet sizing. What are your thoughts there? The reality is your hand is almost not much more than a bluff catcher despite having two pair. Once you call the turn, you prob have to call this small bet on the river after hitting your two pair against many people. Hopefully he shows AK or the same hand. I think something like KK is much more likely but I'd lean towards a call since he bet so small.
ANyways, I don't like any line of check/call throughout a hand unless you are heads up against a maniac who will bet three streets with junk. I also think it's best just to try and avoid calling with a hand ouit of position unless you are set mining or expect to have your hand well-defined on the flop. Otherwise you are just putting yourself in difficult spots and I hate difficult decisions.
Obv I like a raise preflop but as played I think you need to bet/fold the turn if raised.
_________________ - pls excuse my typos... I'm prob on my iPhone
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:16 pm Posts: 995 Location: The OC
Agree with Vook a raise preflop is necessary. AQ still needs to hit a flop to be good against that many players, so you're really only playing it "smooth" if you hit a pair which is only a 1/3 of the time. As Vook noted sometimes you'll hit your pair especially in a limped pot and still not be good. What if the flop comes Q-9-7 rainbow and you lose a chunk or all of your stack to 97s?
As played, I would even go so far as to say you should have reraised the BB pre with the information you provided on this player. Fold the river.
Thanks to all of you for your answer. Finally I decided to call and he instantly mucked what he told me after was a pocket nines... When I discussed the hand with my friend later he told me that he never put me on AQ, but more on a small ace or something like KQ that he could make me fold , so since his read was wrong from the beginning I couldn't honestly know what he was thinking of me. However it's the kind of player that sometimes decide to play a hand totally "egocentric" and fire three barrels whatever comes on the board that don't make a turned flush or obvious straight draw. As i Know him i knew that with something like AK or KK he would have checked behind me on the river praying i didn't busted his two pairs/set with gutshots. Honestly i was lost with his turn bet as i was figuring he would check behind me beginning to understand that I wouldn't leave the hand, and this 900 bet on 2000 made me tank also since it was too small to get me out of the hand, but as I said as he sometimes decides a "conduct line" on a hand and stick to it as long as there is no check raise or flop flat followed by donkbet turn, and maybe there wasn't any rational information to take out of him on this hand. Anyway thanks for your advice, I will especially consider the huge 300-400 preflop raise that I should make in that kind of spot to crush limpers. Then Let say I make this huge PF bet, my friend call as let say one other limper, we see a three handed flop with around 1300 pot on 25-50 blinds, and I'am out of position. I should admit that in this kind of situation that already occured, I don't know what would be the perfect donk continuation bet whatever i hit or not: something like 850?Or a check raise would be better? thanks for your experience sharing And