1. I am a true idiot 2. I allow Aria to charge whatever they want, but I do not stay there 3. LocalRock seems to be a true one, too. 4. Nevertheless I admire LocalRock for his patience. 5. I think Clem has the longest of all of us.
However, I can tell you that this practice was pioneered a little over a decade ago in Las Vegas by a few operators known to specialize in catering to the niche market of clueless kids (Hard Rock & Stratosphere) and which have since been through multiple bankruptcy reorganizations, and spread more readily to those that do a lot of their business with group bookings and do NOT tend to depend as much as others on repeat business from loyal returning customers booking as independent travelers spending their own money. Chew on that last bit Clem. The meaning will come to you, I'm sure, if you ponder it hard enough.
I disagree with you on this. This practice was pioneered long before that and outside of las vegas. the pioneer of this practice was the "In room telephone Charge" which was added to your bill regardless of whether you wanted to use a phone or not........ I ran into this long ago and it was widespread. Later we saw this practice spread to an "energy surcharge".
_________________ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -- George Orwell
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:28 am Posts: 3686 Location: Drawing Dead and Getting There.
psand wrote:
I disagree with you on this. This practice was pioneered long before that and outside of las vegas. the pioneer of this practice was the "In room telephone Charge" which was added to your bill regardless of whether you wanted to use a phone or not........ I ran into this long ago and it was widespread. Later we saw this practice spread to an "energy surcharge".
You're probably right about that. I remember running into some of those nuisance fees, and I remember them as smaller and less material to the cost, but still amounting to about the same kind of thing in principle. But, I think this...
LocalRock wrote:
...and spread more readily to those that do a lot of their business with group bookings...
...remains a significant factor distinguishing those who go down this route in Las Vegas from those that do not. Different customer base, different payment sources and methods, different kind of price elasticity and therefore in what they can get away with without losing more in occupancy and other business than is collected in phony junk fees. Fill in the blanks with those willing to spew cash to act out their pretensions of appearing to be a big ballah livin' large, and non-English speaking international travelers.
Repeat domestic business from well-employed middle class adults in the so-called "FIT" (free and independent traveler) market... not so much. Leaves a bad taste in their mouths, feeling they've just been played for a sucker. Because they have. Then they get home and talk about it with friends, family, and coworkers. A lot.
_________________ Life is six to five against. -Damon Runyon
People who don't realize that are the true idiots and allow
No Clem, I really don't think so, son. I'm pretty sure I've traveled more thousands of miles and spent more nights in hotels in just the last two years alone (over 150,000 and over 250 respectively) than you have in your life, and most likely more in the last decade than you probably ever will, and among sensible travelers a preference for a reasonable degree of certainty as to what is being provided and what will be charged for it is often an important value when booking a room. People quite intelligently avoid providers of goods and services known to engage in these practices, tending to avoid exposing themselves to moving targets on the road, preferring to gamble with something other than their essential accommodations and to avoid doing so while in the vulnerable position of standing at the registration desk with their luggage. Large business enterprises providing retail goods and services with extensive geographic reach frequently invest a great deal to achieve a dependable predictable reputation to insure their long range success. People quite intelligently avoid providers of goods and services known to engage in these practices, and on a personal level the people who are comfortable rationalizing them.
Since they are working to disguise their actual price, obviously MGM does not agree with your view on "all that matters" Clem. Neither do most travelers. Neither do states' attorneys general who've brought successful fraud suits with others over this issue. This bait and switch scam quite rightly generates a considerable amount of ill-will among customers, and it is very well known and acknowledged by those doing it that while it generates significant immediate revenue it does so at the expense of reducing repeat business in the future. And the stench from it often attaches not just to the individual enterprise pulling the scam, but to the reputation of the destination as a whole for travelers. You'll just have to pardon us idiots who persist in thinking we'd prefer to be reasonably sure what something will actually cost BEFORE we purchase it rather than afterward without having to delve into a research project to vet the truthfulness of the rate we are quoted, and have misgivings about dealing with those who can't manage to pass over that little ankle-high business ethics yardstick.
Or perhaps I'm just an idiot, who doesn't understand what the hell he's doing, lacking the superior cognitive capacity necessary. After all, having at one time managed three hotel properties among other things in the course of my decrepit sad idiot's life probably doesn't help me understand what is going on here any more than my academic Economics degree, at least not on the level of the deep Clem hotel fee metagame. However, I can tell you that this practice was pioneered a little over a decade ago in Las Vegas by a few operators known to specialize in catering to the niche market of clueless kids (Hard Rock & Stratosphere) and which have since been through multiple bankruptcy reorganizations, and spread more readily to those that do a lot of their business with group bookings and do NOT tend to depend as much as others on repeat business from loyal returning customers booking as independent travelers spending their own money. Chew on that last bit Clem. The meaning will come to you, I'm sure, if you ponder it hard enough.
Local Rock- I have hd rolls with companies where I spent 80% of the year on the road. I know more about traveling and I forgot more about traveling than you will ever know. I think if you go back and re-read my post I clearly spell out why it makes sense of MGM corp to do this as well as the Venetian and the Wynn.
The fact that Local Rock is claiming that charging the resort fee has caused the downfall of the Hard Rock and Stratosphere is rather funny. Somehow I doubt that investors are grilling the CFO's about that ONE SMALL REVENUE LINE on the P&L. Let me give you a hint- I think if one thing causes a pain point for these properties was EBITDA. I am guessing that many lines on the P&L have more of an impact that the Resort Fee Revenue Line.
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:28 am Posts: 3686 Location: Drawing Dead and Getting There.
Now c'mon Clem, you aren't old enough to be all that well acquainted with the process of inhaling & exhaling, whether you're able to understand that yet at this point in your life or not. The "I know this is all that matters and those who don't think so don't understand like I do" foolishness will fly with absolutely nobody anywhere, whether they say so or not. Getting to the point of being able to acknowledge that will one day be a big step in the process of growing up. Enjoy the advantages of relative youth while they're around before you get to be a decrepit old goat like me. There are many, but this isn't one of them.
Clem2754 wrote:
Somehow I doubt that investors are grilling the CFO's about that ONE SMALL REVENUE LINE on the P&L.
So do I. I think their investors had reason to be concerned about many facets of mismanagement and misjudgement in the course of the financial failure of the properties. However, this is not such a small revenue line as you might imagine, and can be a sign of a company scuffling for immediate revenue at the expense of other values that matter to the long-range well-being of an enterprise.
_________________ Life is six to five against. -Damon Runyon
Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:06 am Posts: 1250 Location: South Texas
The bottom line is MGM has run out of ideas on how to create new revenue, MGM is reaching for straws here taking the easy way out. I bet MGM CEO does not like there EBITDA, the numbers are not there to there liking. I worked for a service company for 20 yrs and the number one asset is your employees and your service. Get your service back up to par and the revenue will follow. I personally do not mind paying more if i am getting more.
I travel to Vegas on a regular basis ans when a hotel adds a "resort fee" to my bill I put them on my personal no stay list. I want to know up front what it will cost me to stay. The same goes for the other fees I have seen.
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 2916 Location: Seattle area
apollo wrote:
I ask, "Doesn't Mirage charge a resort fee? Didn't your friend have to pay that? Doesn't that include Internet access?"
His reply, "I dunno--he just said when he tried to access the Internet from his room it told him he had to pay $15/day and it'd be billed to his credit card automatically."
Yet here it is on their web page: "There is no charge associated with the internet access, as it is an inclusion of the resort fee."
Common theme. I've read multiple posts from people who said they were actually billed for Internet access despite having paid the resort fees at the MGM properties. They had to argue with the desk to get the Internet fee removed. And even if they aren't intending to double bill for such things, why are they lying to their customers about the charges?
I don't travel that much, but sadly I've found "internet included" often means, charge the internet to your room and we'll take it off your bill, but you may have to remind us. It's a pretty sleazy practice.
I expect part of this is hotels let a 3rd party handle their internet service. Some choose to have free internet everywhere or at least free wifi in common areas. Some chose to charge a fee for WiFi in the room or in the common areas; my hunch is if you pay $15 the internet guys get $10 and the hotel pockets $5. Now that they've changed the system, or in some cases have packages and promos that include free WiFi, the system in place is set to charge people. So the "simple" thing is to charge people and take it off the bill. Of course as a consumer the last thing you want is to pay twice, so you "avoid" paying for the free internet that's provided.
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