This is a hand that came up in my $.50/$1 no limit hold'em home game.

The Players:

V is a very loose aggressive player. We are good friends and have a lot of experience playing against each other. He plays even more aggressively against me because of our friendly but intense rivalry. V has about $200 to start the hand.He is in middle position.

I am on the button. I also have a (somewhat undeserved) aggressive image. I have . I have V covered.

The Action:

Pre-Flop V and a few others including the blinds call. I call. Pot = $6.

The Flop: .

Check to V who bets $5. One other Player calls. The rest fold to me. On such a draw heavy board I decide it is a bad idea to slow play two pair here. I raise to $20. The blinds fold to V who surprises me by raising to $50. The other opponent folds.

I am a bit surprised by the three bet. I am pretty certain that I can eliminate KK (no pre-flop raise) and any type of draw (in years of play I have never seen him 3 bet the flop with just a draw) from V's range. K-7 or K-8 are possible because this V will limp with ATC especially if he could have a chance to play me in a big pot. After some thought I decide K-X is the most likely hand.

V has $150 behind so I can't really raise here without committing to play for stacks which I am not totally sure I want to do. I decide to call.

Pot= $111

The Turn is

V bets $35. I absolutely hate this card as it completed a possible flush draw or straigh draw. At this point I am not sure if this is (1) a post oak bluff), (2) a value bet with K-X (possibly a better two pair), or (3) a please call me bet with a made flush. None of these seem likely knowing what I know about this player but it has to be one. I decide $35 into $111 is to small to fold when there is a good chance I am still ahead. I call.

Pot+ $181

The River is

V checks. I can't see V. checking with the or of spades here. So if he has a flush its a baby flush. I think there is about a 40% chance my two pair is still good. If he has K-Xs I can probably get him to fold with a shove because he could easily put me on K-X WITH the K of spades. On the other hand, no worse hand than my two pair will call so I a bet is only for fold equity.

Questions:

1. Should I have 4 bet shoved on the flop?
2. Should I have called, raised or folded on the turn?
3. Should I shove the river or check behind?

_________________
**********************************************************

Nobody cares about your fantasy football team.

-Krusherlaw.

I am 100% fine with the way you played your hand so far. You have a lot of showdown value so I'd just check the river back and hope he doesn't have a hand like KJ with the Js.

_________________
Follow me on Twitter (@BentonBlakeman)
http://www.twitter.com/BentonBlakeman

How much meta-game do you think is happening?
It's nearly impossible to answer your questions if you think there is a lot of meta-game happening based on your history.


That said:
1) I don't like a shove on the flop unless you have a "super LAG" image. You played it perfect. Call the check raise with position. If a spade misses the Turn you are certain to get another bet out of him.
2)Villian's action seems like a blocking bet here. It seems like he wants to get to the River cheaply....we need to disappoint him. Based on the read that you don't think he'd three bet a draw out of position, I'm raising here. IMO, maximize the fold equity you have. (My advice would be different if you could narrow his range to more one pair hands.)
With him taking this line, I think we may currently be behind.
3) As played, I'm probably betting $100 on the River. IMO, his line screams tht we're beat. The only way to win is to force him to lay down his hand. I think you have to try to resprent the or

_________________
"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism" ~ Kenny Powers

I think you have to bet the river and rep the or . $100 seems reasonable here.

V reraised you postflop. Unless he's super spewy and can do that with AK, he likely has a set. It would be helpful to know how many callers were ahead of V. The more callers in front of him, the more likely he may limp in with 77 or 88 to setmine. If he has a set, you can easily push him off the hand with a river bet. He also could have a baby flush. It's unlikely that he had a big draw on the flop....flush draw/OESD or flush draw/gutshot. Those type of hands or made a straight flush and isn't checking the river ever. You know this guy. Would he call a $100 bet with just the Js or Ts in his hand?

The ultimate question is.......is your two pair good to just check the river and see? I can't see that. He'll fold any hand worse, but I think he will fold a number of hands that beat you with that board and the betting action.

It seems odd to disagree with the 'resident pro', but I think Hero's 2 pair has very little or no showdown value. V liked his hand enough to 3-bet the flop. I think this narrows V's range to 2 pair, sets, pair + flush draw or OESF draw. I don't see a hand that H can beat except for a pure bluff. I think the only way H wins the pot is to bet V off of a better 2 pair or set.

_________________
lots of the guys i play with think im someone with money compared to them - sevencard2003

Thanks for the replies. I thought this was an interesting hand because there was a lot of 'play' by both parties on each street.

Here are my thoughts on the river:

1. If V made a small flush he would probably bet his hand in the hopes of getting a middle flush to fold. Maybe this is not true of most players but I know V very well and I am pretty sure that is how he would play it.

2. If V had a better two pair or a set he would have bet much more than $35 on the turn to get flush draws out.

I concluded that I was ahead with my two pair but there was no value in betting since no worse hand would call.

I checked behind and V showed A-K (no spades). I scooped the pot.

If I made a mistake in this hand it was not attacking the weakness V showed by making such a small bet on the turn. If I had shoved on the turn V would have folded and I wouldnt have put myself in the difficult position on the river. I am actually surprised noone commented on that.

_________________
**********************************************************

Nobody cares about your fantasy football team.

-Krusherlaw.

Don't worry about this. You cannot shove this turn profitably when the flush card hits as you're always getting looked up by flushes and sets, and all hands you beat are folding. This is just one of this unfortunate spots where you can't maximize value, all you can do is hope to get to showdown and win the pot.

I would have played the hand exactly as you did on every street.

_________________
Follow me on Twitter (@BentonBlakeman)
http://www.twitter.com/BentonBlakeman

I think you need to modify your description of villain for the future.

you describe him as "very loose aggressive player" that simple description would lead me to believe that he would rarely if ever limp preflop with AK. I think you need to add the word "tricky" and then wonder if he is one of those tricky types who likes to slow play his big hands too much. this makes a difference on the flop because "tricky" players are unlikely to lead out or 4bet with a hand as strong as a set. in fact, I would say that most people who hit a set here on the flop would check and not lead out. Esp on a dry flop where we should all beware the check/call, check/raise turn signs of a flopped set... I'm rambling now...

per the hand, interesting point by Benton. I think call or shove on turn also has to do a lot with opponent types. If your opponent is likely to bluff a lot then calling is better as it gives him a chance to fire again on the river as opposed to folding out all the hands you beat on the turn. if your opponent is the kind who makes obvious weak blocking bets then i would just get it in to avoid him binking a flush on the river (or making him pay to see it). if I am unsure then i am ok with call and re-eval river as the flop action seems so strong (compared to the preflop limp)

_________________
- pls excuse my typos... I'm prob on my iPhone

Play online with me, check out my other blog: http://vookenmeister.blogspot.com

This is a good point about the turn. I think V makes this type of defensive bet with most of his range.

Another point on the river, I think the only hands you beat are 1 pair hands with no spades. This is a pretty small part of his range. I think he shows up with a better 2 pair, set or flush the majority of the time. You will get him to fold most of these hands with a bet of about 60% of the pot (about $100). By betting I think you win the hand at least 75% of the time. I think you win the hand less than 1/3 of the time when checking.

I'm going to do some math to look at EV. Let me know if I'm off base. I'm going to assume that V can call a $100 bet 25% of the time and each time V calls you loose.
EV when betting:
V folds: +181 * .75 = 136
V calls: -100 * .25 = -25

Now if we divide the EV when we loose ($25) by the size of the pot (181) we get .138 or 13.8%. To be break even, betting has to increase our chance of winning by 13.8% vs checking. I think a bet does that and then some. I think you are being extremely optimistic if you think you will win 40% of the time when checking. I think you easily win more than 60% of the time when betting (maybe as much as 85% of the time). Thoughts?

_________________
lots of the guys i play with think im someone with money compared to them - sevencard2003