Tracking Software

PiJuice15 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:22 pm

Sorry if this has been discussed before, I searched for it, but could not find a thread with any good info....

I have been playing online cash games a lot recently, and finally looked into tracking software. Just wondering which program AVPers used and if they liked it. I downloaded Poker Tracker 3 trial and have only about 3,000 hands on it at the moment, but I know there are others like Hold Em Manager etc.

I used to deposit just a couple of hundred bucks and play limits that were above my online BR, but with this last deposit I am starting off at baby stakes and would like to work my way up. I usually play 4 tables at a time, and I think investing in software like this would be +EV.

Thanks for any advice!

socalvegasmk · **Posted:** Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:50 pm

I do not like online tracking software mainly because I consider it cheating. In my opinion it basically breaks the "one player per hand" rule. This is why I primarily play on sites that do not allow such software. I'm sure many will disagree, as many of my friends do, but if some third party person and/or entity is maintaining perfect memory for you which you could not do alone otherwise then I think it breaks the above mentioned rule. And for those who argue that programs like Poker Tracker only store information and does not give you advise or tell you how to play a hand, ..... c'mon give me a break.

TheJacob · **Joined:** Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:13 am **Posts:** 1417

I use PT3 and love it, but I have never used HEM.

I get the general feeling most prefer HEM now, because it may have some features PT3 does not.
That said I haven't used it and have used PT3 and wouldn't play without it.

derdeli · **Joined:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:00 am **Posts:** 117

socalvegasmk wrote:

I do not like online tracking software mainly because I consider it cheating. In my opinion it basically breaks the "one player per hand" rule. This is why I primarily play on sites that do not allow such software. I'm sure many will disagree, as many of my friends do, but if some third party person and/or entity is maintaining perfect memory for you which you could not do alone otherwise then I think it breaks the above mentioned rule. And for those who argue that programs like Poker Tracker only store information and does not give you advise or tell you how to play a hand, ..... c'mon give me a break.

I am not aware of pokerrooms that does not allow PT. Where do you play?

I have been using PT for a long time and would not want to play without. I do not feel like cheeting and PT is very cautious to implement only stuff that is not against the rules set by the supported Pokerrooms.

PiJuice15 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:47 am

At first, I figured that using this software was cheating, but then I realized how many people actually used it, and I wanted to see how much of an advantage it can give you. I kind of agree with SoCalVegasMK when he said it breaks the one player per hand rule, but then again, I have seen many people take down notes of other players on a small notepad in live games.

On a couple of hands, PT has cost me a few bucks when I knew I should have folded, but continued the hand because my stats said that the guy was hyperagressive, but I really do think it has helped me play better against most players.

One of the things I REALLY like about the software isnt even the HUD and info it tracks on other players, but more so on my own play. I really like to see my session in there with all the hands I played. It would be nearly impossible to track all this info without it. I really like being able to mark hands in the history, and go back and really study my game by replaying hands, and it gives me all the info like winning percentages and pot odds. For this alone I am thinking of putting up the money for the software. Sometimes I even play without the HUD, but keep PT running for the stats.

Because I only have a trial, I cannot use the table tracker, is that any good, does it actually lead you to the table were the fishes are?

TrayGIT · **Posted:** Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:14 am

PT3 and HEM are both great, I used the Poker Tracker 3 trial, and have HEM and PT2 now (don't use PT2 anymore though).
I think if you're using it very casually, PT3 is better, it was really easy to use, and had everything displayed simply. If you want to do in depth analysis, HEM is better, it has more filters and you can really set it up to do pretty much anything you want.
I really think the HUD is overrated, most of the stats can be very misleading, especially if you don't have a lot of hands on the other players, and unless you're playing at midstakes, it'll be pretty uncommon to get 20k hands on a player, which isn't even enough for a lot of the stats. Take aggression factor for example, just because someone has an af of 3 doesn't really tell you how you should play a hand against them, it could be high because they bet/raise a lot, or because they fold way too many marginal hands. Paying attention and getting reads on players is much better, and a lot of people with HUD fail to do that.
The best thing I like about HUD is locating fish using VPIP/PFR, those stats don't take very long to tell you if someone is a fish, and if nobody at your table has 40/5 stats or worse, it's often time to look for a more profitable table.

meekamouse · **Posted:** Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:47 am

I would never play online without some type of tracking software, because you would be at a severe disadvantage if you didnt. That said, I choose not to play online at all because I think tracking software ruins the game. One of the things I love about poker is solving the puzzle on your own accord. I dont want a robots help, and I dont want that robot helping others either.

larfingravy · **Posted:** Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:38 am

Noob question alert!!!

Does poker tracking software show these statistics in all available games?
Say a player plays a lot of double or nothing games and then moves onto a cash game table. Well won't his stats be useless?
Does it lump all of their statistical play in different games into one bunch of numbers?

I appreciate some players will stick to a handful of particular games.

PiJuice15 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:17 am

larfingravy wrote:

Noob question alert!!!

Does poker tracking software show these statistics in all available games?
Say a player plays a lot of double or nothing games and then moves onto a cash game table. Well won't his stats be useless?
Does it lump all of their statistical play in different games into one bunch of numbers?

I appreciate some players will stick to a handful of particular games.

Alright, I am a noob at this tracking software thing too.. but I think I can answer this one...

Poker Tracker keeps tournament and cash game data seperate. There are two seperate tabs in the program. I am really liking PT3 for the cash game, but I am not too impressed with the tournament tracking. I think it has missed a few SnGs I have played, and has not kept good track. I used to be more of a tourney player, but have been playing almost exclusively cash games to work on my game.

Also, I don't think it keeps track of the different kinds of tournaments, which means it will just group all tourney stats, no matter if it is a Double or Nothing, Turbo, Super Turbo, Satellite, etc, which all require a slightly different strategy. So I don't think that this software will be too useful for tournament play. Like I said, I am fairly new to this, but these are my thoughts so far.

TheJacob · **Joined:** Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:13 am **Posts:** 1417

The short answer is you can filter the hands however you like.

For me it doesn't really matter because I just want to be able to differentiate between the loose passives and the semi-competent nits.

When I'm playing cash it helps me tailor my preflop raising range(I raise AT, KJ,etc against the loose passives...and dump those hands for sooted connectors against the nits).

In SNGs/MTTs I use the same stats to determine who's limps I will be shoving over and whos I won't. As well as who I'll be restealing from.

I'm sure if you have a large enough sample the stats could be used for postflop decisions too, but generally I don't have large samples against players and even if I did...I think my reads are better than stats for postflop play.

Generally preflop the situation is the same every hand.

Every postflop situation is fairly unique and I don't think straight stats can tell you very much about those situations.

Tracking Software

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