Verbal is Binding ("If....then")

Local Rock · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:03 am

As a player potentially in this situation, if I don't hear anything from the staff running the game at the time of the iffy declaration, I'm thinking I'd probably cover myself by asking something like "will that statement be binding here?" before I act. Maybe there are some more hidden problems with THAT, but it is what I've tentatively arrived at. These infestations of iffy-thennies aren't so common that I'd feel like I know the approach taken in rooms where I've played, even where I've played a lot. I don't think it is gonna be on the list of things a sensible player would normally want to routinely ask about when going to a poker room, and getting down to this level of comprehensive specificity on what policies a room puts on the wall would tend to require a lot of them to get a bigger wall.

twriter · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:07 am

Local Rock wrote:

I'm real careful about any sentence containing any words resembling "bet, raise, or call."

This.

psand · **Joined:** Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am **Posts:** 4334

Local Rock wrote:

As a player potentially in this situation, if I don't hear anything from the staff running the game at the time of the iffy declaration, I'm thinking I'd probably cover myself by asking something like "will that statement be binding here?" before I act. Maybe there are some more hidden problems with THAT, but it is what I've tentatively arrived at. These infestations of iffy-thennies aren't so common that I'd feel like I know the approach taken in rooms where I've played, even where I've played a lot. I don't think it is gonna be on the list of things a sensible player would normally want to routinely ask about when going to a poker room, and getting down to this level of comprehensive specificity on what policies a room puts on the wall would tend to require a lot of them to get a bigger wall.

Also keep in mind that even if a room tells you "conditional action is binding" or "not binding" when the incident occurs you may find they consider it to be a different issue.

I work in a room which has the policy that conditional action is binding. Before I worked in the room I was playing in a tournament. We were down to 3 players and the other 2 players seemed to think that there was some significance to the amount of times 8's came on the flop. In hand between the two of them one of them announced ..... "If an 8 comes I'm going all in." The other quickly said "and I'm calling" The dealer informed them that this was binding. Fortunately no 8 came so we didn;t actually have to find out that way. later i asked the floor and he told me conditional action is binding but sort of indicated that he didn't think this is the scenario the rule applied to. He would not have overruled the dealer on it .... but he also wouldn't want the dealer to make that binding.

What types of statements are conditional action.

"You know if you bet I will have to call?" is that conditional action.

"you know I am already pot committed" is that conditional action "If you bet I will at least call".

"If you put some of it in you may as well put it all in" Is that a conditional statement "If you bet less than all of it I will raise"?

How about if before I look at my cards I say "I'm pushing with any ace?" Is that enforceable?

How about if I tell a player that "if you raise my blind again next time I'm going to pop you back."

How about if I tell a player that if the straddle I will raise.

Even if they tell conditional action is binding there are still questions about what sort of statements that applies to

Local Rock · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:10 am

And there we go. A nice no-doubt very partial sample of some of the potential weirdness that I think makes it wise - not absolutely "right" but just probably the most wise general policy approach - for iffy-thennies to be treated as statements about the weather at Saratoga next Thursday.

And an illustration of the case for tasers as standard equipment. And I wish that dealer had really special skills so the flop came out 8d8h8c.

twriter · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:23 am

But they are also good examples of trying to angle shoot. It's why I think the if...then type of statements should be assumed to be so unless proven otherwise, not the other way around. Or at least some level of douchbaggery. And why floorpeople are given the authority to rule "in the best interests of the game."

In other words, even if you're not attempting to deliberately angle shoot, you wanna be a wise ass and copy everything you see on TV, you get to pay the piper.

Better yet, don't be an asshat at the poker table.

Local Rock · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:44 am

twriter wrote:

Better yet, don't be an asshat at the poker table.

Now I think that second general policy might have useful practical applications here. At the Local Rock Casino, Filling Station, Quicklube, and Bikini Carwash all poker tables shall henceforth be equipped with a special marker stored under the rake box, which the dealer shall place where it will remain prominently displayed at the designated seat for the edification of all the players and the dealers coming in on subsequent downs:

Mirage Poker · **Joined:** Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:14 am **Posts:** 1392

Local Rock wrote:

Mirage Poker wrote:

Latitude

Speaking of which, welcome back to civilization. Ain't it wunnerful?

yeah, right - see my post in random thoughts

TheGameKat · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:06 pm

twriter wrote:

But they are also good examples of trying to angle shoot. It's why I think the if...then type of statements should be assumed to be so unless proven otherwise, not the other way around. Or at least some level of douchbaggery. And why floorpeople are given the authority to rule "in the best interests of the game."

In other words, even if you're not attempting to deliberately angle shoot, you wanna be a wise ass and copy everything you see on TV, you get to pay the piper.

Better yet, don't be an asshat at the poker table.

Yeah I agree. Although this is pretty much subsumed within your asshat clause which should be displayed clearly in all rooms.

Dap Poker · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:17 pm

Local Rock wrote:

twriter wrote:

Better yet, don't be an asshat at the poker table.

Now I think that second general policy might have useful practical applications here. At the Local Rock Casino, Filling Station, Quicklube, and Bikini Carwash all poker tables shall henceforth be equipped with a special marker stored under the rake box, which the dealer shall place where it will remain prominently displayed at the designated seat for the edification of all the players and the dealers coming in on subsequent downs:

I hope that the Local Rock Casino, Filling Station, Quicklube, and Bikini Carwash getting a good volume discount on those markers.

Dave

Local Rock · **Posted:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:46 pm

Dap Poker wrote:

volume discount

I'm thinking spandex, so one size hat fits a multitude of asses.

Verbal is Binding ("If....then")

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