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Board index > Poker Strategy Discussion > Limit Hold'em Cash Game Strategy


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Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit



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jbuck217
 Post subject: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:39 pm 
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Trips
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Location: Colorado
I've never played a limit hand in my life so I'm not familiar with the betting structure at all.

I believe that (and could certainly be wrong) blinds are 1 and 2 with early betting rounds of $2 increments and later at $4. What I don't know is when the amounts go up and how many raises per street are allowed.

Assuming the max amount of pre-flop bets and max amount of bets per street, what is the greatest amount that any player could lose on any particular hand?

Hope this makes sense to someone.

Thanks.

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SeattleIrish
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:58 pm
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Please check my math:

pre-flop and flop are @ $2.00 with max 3 raises, so max of $8.00 on each street = $16.00
turn and river are @ $4.00 with max 3 raises, so max of $16.00 on each street = $32.00
total = max potential of $48.00

Keep in mind that many (all?) places allow unlimited action (i.e., no cap on the number of raises, but still a limit on each bet) on the river IF the river begins head's-up.

s.i.


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Local Rock
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:55 pm 
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SeattleIrish wrote:
Please check my math:

pre-flop and flop are @ $2.00 with max 3 raises, so max of $8.00 on each street = $16.00
turn and river are @ $4.00 with max 3 raises, so max of $16.00 on each street = $32.00
total = max potential of $48.00

Keep in mind that many (all?) places allow unlimited action (i.e., no cap on the number of raises, but still a limit on each bet) on the river IF the river begins head's-up.

s.i.
There are also a lot of rooms that have a five bet (four raise) cap in their limit games, rather than the three raises for four bets total to cap it, so in that case in a multiway pot with the cap remaining in place to showdown the amounts for a 2/4L game would be $10 preflop + $10 flop + $20 turn + $20 river = $60 total into the pot from one player. There are also some games played with a full-kill or half-kill button, in which the stakes double (full-kill) or increase by 50% (half-kill) for the next hand when one player has won two consecutive pots.

There are a few places around that do not remove the cap on the number of raises when it becomes head-up, but not many. The only one I can think of at the moment with this paternalistic rule is Excalibur. So, in most rooms if the hand is down to being contested head up by the river, the answer would become a question: "How much do you have on the table & how much of it are both willing to put in before one of the two just calls to end the raising war?" Strangely enough, there are plenty of times when the answer has been "as many raises as it takes for all of it" when playing with a sober coffee drinking Local Rock holding the stone cold nuts. You might think even a drunken lunatic with a room temperature IQ might choose to pause when a middle-aged guy described as "Rock" comes back over the top again to "eighteen bet" it, perhaps to consider what he might be doing that for. But you'd often be wrong. And Local Rock thanks you for playing, and sincerely hopes you enjoyed your visit.

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bowlingfool
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:26 pm 
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jbuck217 wrote:
What I don't know is when the amounts go up


usually the turn & river is when it goes up. Pre-flop & flop betting is at $2 and turn & river betting is at $4.

jbuck217 wrote:
and how many raises per street are allowed.


this is room dependent.

most Calif rooms allow for 1 bet + 3 raises - max cost for the hand will be 12 big bets

most Vegas rooms allow for 1 bet + 4 raises - max cost for the hand will be 15 big bets

I think some online rooms might allow 1 bet + 5 raises

and like Rock stated, most (but not all) rooms will allow unlimited raising when the betting round starts as a heads-up situation.


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bowlingfool
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:29 pm 
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Local Rock wrote:
.... when a middle-aged guy described as "Rock" comes back over the top again to "eighteen bet" it, perhaps to consider what he might be doing that for....


this is awesome!! I'd love to see that in a live game some day!


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Local Rock
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:41 pm 
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bowlingfool wrote:
Local Rock wrote:
.... when a middle-aged guy described as "Rock" comes back over the top again to "eighteen bet" it, perhaps to consider what he might be doing that for....


this is awesome!! I'd love to see that in a live game some day!
Yes, it is. And I'd like to see it everyday that ends in the letter "Y". I've had it happen on a paired board containing three of a suit against a player excited about his "big hand" after making his straight. And this is why I really appreciate it if other folks at the table can please STFU about the board 'till the hands are tabled and the pot is being pushed. That is often a bigger barrier to cross than getting the excited fellow to happily stick it all in on his own at times like those.

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axb001
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:29 am 
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Actually I've been in a raise and reraise war with a "local rock" on the river in 2-4 limit. I think we got to a bet and 7 raises before he finally called me.

The board was something like KsTs9s5h2c. He had flopped the ace flush. Unfortunately for him I had flopped the straight flush.

To be fair to the player, there are so many novices at this level that, given he had no history on me in the game, it was quite plausible his hand was good. I think against an unknown player at this level I would probably have got to the 4-bet myself in his situation. In fact i recall an occasion in 2-4 limit where I held the ace of spades on a 5-spade board with straight flush possibilities against a re-raiser. I called him, and he showed "two pair"!


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Local Rock
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:14 am 
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axb001 wrote:
He had flopped the ace flush.
If a drunken Englishman was involved, I might go seven or eight bets.

Personally I think my best (at least most entertaining for MY money) limit raising war story was probably one I watched after folding preflop a few years ago, most likely involving someone's player specific read of the "ooops" variety, here:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=72&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Quote:
My last visit to the Suncoast included a classic scene. Seated to my left was a lady I believe was the most solid player in the game at the time. In mid-evening the table was joined by two absolutely precious drunk girls from California, who appeared to be barely of legal age to be in a casino, staying at the hotel while in town to attend a wedding, seated together on my right trying poker for the first time. Perky cute Precious Girl #1 got involved in a raising war with Solid Lady, requiring some help from the dealer as she asked: “It's okay to bet more now then? So I should put the chips out there like that?” At showdown she timidly asked “are these good cards?” while turning over quad Jacks. Precious Girl squealed with delight but was rather confused when the floor brought over a full rack of pretty red chips for her jackpot hand. Since she was next to me and new to casino poker I took the liberty of introducing her to the local custom called a “toke” as she admired the mountain of clay that had appeared in front of her.

Solid Lady sighed at the bare felt where her chips used to live and went home to feed her cat. I'm pretty sure she had a full house, Queens over Jacks. Precious soon wandered over to the pit with her riches to learn blackjack, and I'm also pretty sure she still doesn't have any idea why that nice man from the poker desk brought her that pretty red gift and asked her to sign something.

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Paulie_D
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:29 am 
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Personally, I like to prop bet with someone on how many times some n00b will ask "How much can I bet now?" :mrgreen:

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Mirage Poker
 Post subject: Re: Max amount you could lose per hand in 2-4 limit
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:14 am
Posts: 1392
axb001 wrote:
To be fair to the player, there are so many novices at this level that, given he had no history on me in the game, it was quite plausible his hand was good. I think against an unknown player at this level I would probably have got to the 4-bet myself in his situation. In fact i recall an occasion in 2-4 limit where I held the ace of spades on a 5-spade board with straight flush possibilities against a re-raiser. I called him, and he showed "two pair"!


[nit joke post]
actually he showed a flush
[/nit joke post]

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