Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 1408 Location: San Francisco, CA
Playing $4/$8 at the Mirage. Fairly loose-passive game, as is typical. Guy who has been a little bit aggressive raises after a limper. One cold caller and I wake up with AA on the button. Of course I pop it. Limper calls, raiser 4-bets, cold caller folds, I cap, limper finally gives it up and we're heads up. 3-betting preflop is almost unheard of and a cap hasn't occurred all day, so I figure I'm likely up against either AA or KK. I'm praying a K doesn't hit the flop.
Flop comes Q-high rainbow. He bets, I raise, he calls.
J turn. He checks, I bets, he calls.
River is a blank. He checks, I bet, he...folds???
My question: How do you fold to one bet on the river in such a big pot?
The very next hand, I get QQ and raise 4 limpers, The BB comes along as well so 6 of us (!) see a flop of 567. It's checked to me, I bet, all call.
Turn is a 5. It's checked to me, I bet. All call.
River is a 7. It's checked to me. I have no clue what everyone is still calling with and just check behind, flipping up my overpair. Everyone folds. How the #&%$@! did that hold up against 5 other players on a double-paired board? Does anyone bet that on the river?
Not that I'm complaining, mind you. Somewhere else someone was talking about win rate in limit games. Over almost 9 hours, 6 of which were at $4/$8, I made almost $300, for around an 8BB/hour win rate fr the session. That said, I think that's very much an outlier.
_________________ - Low-limit limit poker @ Artichoke Joe's ($6/$12) & 101 Casino ($4/$8 w/ 1/2 kill) - Poker blog, good writing, OK poker: http://chuck.martin.name/poker/ - Tweets from the felt: twitter.com/chuckspoker
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:43 pm Posts: 748 Location: Las Vegas
Apparently you didn't hear about "The Fold" at the inaugural Riviera 10k.
Player shoves AI, then notices a green chip used as a card cap got left behind. The chip remains behind the betting line as a toothless gentleman calls the bet. Pot 17,500. Flop comes 334. The original raiser flicks in the remaining 25 chip. The toothless gentleman, unperturbed by the fairly attractive odds of 700-to-1, concludes that he has missed the flop and folds. Table goes nuts. Then the original raiser, who is blinking like a raccoon that has just been shot in the face with a water pistol containing vitriol, tables 33 for quads.
Sounds like you found yourself a very juicy game. The preflop raiser in the first hand was probably just getting frisky with some kind of suited connector. Then when you three-bet he decided to gamble it up, maybe getting a chance to crack you big pair if the board hit him. Not knowing exactly what the flop was, it's hard to say, but I'm guessing he flopped some kind of straight draw, maybe even a gutshot. Or maybe he flopped something like middle or bottom pair. In his mind that's possibly good enough to call your flop raise with. As silly as all of that sounds, plenty of people in low-limit hold'em games play that way. They are the reason for the season.
On the second hand, my answer is no, I don't think I could bet that river against five opponents. ....And of course 9 hours is a pretty chintzy sample size, and 8 BB an hour is not sustainable, but congrats on having a great sesh!
If we had to explain every donkey move ever seen in a poker game by any member of the AVP community, we would all have to quit our jobs and spend most of our waking hours trying to justify the unjustifiable. On the first hand, my guess is that the Donkey/Villian over-played A-K. Once the pot got so big pre-flop, he compounded his errors by feeling like he had the odds to draw to his "over-cards". He may have also thought his A-K was tied or ahead of your A-K or A-J. Who knows, it was played horribly, but I am putting him on A-K.
The 2nd hand is much more crazy. That this hand held is nuts. Could they really all have had flopped straight draws and one pair hands with no 5's or 7's? This is a suicidal place to bet IMO.
But I have been involved in similar hands. I remember once betting top pair in a NL game. I get four callers. The third heart hits on the turn, but given me two pair. I bet again, albeit a small bet (1/4 pot), just trying to forestall a bluff and see a river card. Perhaps an obvious weak stab in retrospect, but this isn't about my bad play. I get called by four players again. Fourth heart hits on the river. I check, and four callers check behind me. I win the hand with two pair. WTF??? Can't explain bad play except to say that it is bad play. I may not have played the hand well, but my opponents out-donkeyed me and I won the pot.
Craziness. Hand 1 I think player had AK or AT, called with overs on the flop, turned a bradway draw and decided to save a river bet. Hand 2- either bet /fold or check back 'd likely check back near 100%). I really expect a 7 to bet so not surprised no one had a 7, bit am surprised QQ holds 6 ways! Nh
A few years ago I played a hand during the early morning at the Orleans, it was 4/8 limit w/ half kill. It was a kill hand so the stakes were 6/12. I was dealt KK on the button and I swear I never once raised or re-raised yet every round was capped. My KK never improved but also no A ever appeared so I kept on calling. Even then there was enough coordination on the board for me to believe I couldn't win. When I eventually turned my hand over, a bit of a slow roll, everyone mucked. Some guy stated he couldn't believe I never once raised but another person said, "why should he when you stupid guys did all of it for him". I raked in a pot of more than $450!!!
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:13 pm Posts: 12 Location: Minneapolis
don't try to understand limit hold em players at a low stakes game. they are there to have fun and drink with their friends. people chase straights/flushs when they have no implied odds. they will call call fold and call call call when they hit their card. that is just how low stakes limit works.
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