Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 1613 Location: GVR dealer/floor, previously worked at TI and WSOP
Dmuz75 wrote:
Just my quick .02 as a player and as a dealer.
Why is it the subject of tipping brings out so much emotion? I hear all the time about how much tipping "costs" If this is your job, then it's an expense. Tip what you want however, don't do the following:
Adjust your tip based on house rake- dealers have NO control over that.
Complain about tipping to the dealer (especially when you are stuck, as it's not their fault you are having a bad night/getting drawn out on/suck at poker)
Say that tipping a dealer eats into the bottom line, then throw the cute blonde waitress a redbird for bring you a $3 can of redbull
Also, don't assume a dealer makes 30/hr..For every good down where you get 1-2$ every hand, theres that table of misfits and miserable bastards that stiff and you $2 for the half hour. Pluse dealers do not deal 8hrs a day! And if they do, they are not "in the box" soemtimes there is a lot of down time. You might deal for a half hour then be on break for an hour. Or you are a graveyard dealer, come in at midnight and the room goes dark at 2:00am, and now you have to sit in an empty room for 6 hors and making minimum wage
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_________________ Views expressed are my own and not those of Green Valley Ranch, the WSOP, or AVP.
Since nothing will change in the us regarding poker dealers and tipping let's play devils advocate here. People are saying the casino owners can afford to pay us more. Wel like some one already said that is done in Australia. The casinos rob poker players blind in rake and hourly. As a poker dealer who has dealt on and off the strip I think maybe a toke plan 2-4 and 3-6 limit games the dealer sits down every one at the table gives him/her a buck. 4-8 and higher 2 bucks any no limit it's two bucks a player per dealer. But that's just my 2 bucks from a dealer and I played for 12 years before I dealt and always tipped well and didn't care because at the end of the year I still made a great profit and I know the 2-3 k in tips ment more to the dealers that got it than it ment to my bottom line.
_________________ When you THINK you'r man enough come on over .
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 3912 Location: Manassas, VA
Let's not forget that in most casinos the poker rooms are barely profitable ( or they could make more money with slot in that space). So if people started tipping less, dealers would make less, dealer play would suffer, games would suffer, people would enjoy it less, games would die. Just top the non like u do anything else
_________________ - pls excuse my typos... I'm prob on my iPhone
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 1613 Location: GVR dealer/floor, previously worked at TI and WSOP
Good points in the past two posts, but one thing to keep in mind on casinos and their "ownership". That is called stockholders. If you don't deliver a bottom line profit for them, you're CEO, CFO job, is toast. Also, as some have thought before, dealers to most people (and corporations) are a dime a dozen, until that rookie dealer that doesn't give a crap deals to you. So when that dealer that performs the best time and time again to you, remember what you could be putting up with.
_________________ Views expressed are my own and not those of Green Valley Ranch, the WSOP, or AVP.
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:37 am Posts: 111 Location: Exit 239
vookenmeister wrote:
Let's not forget that in most casinos the poker rooms are barely profitable ( or they could make more money with slot in that space).
that's how the bean counters probably look at a poker room, but to view a poker room as a stand-alone profit center is really a mistake in my opinion.
first off, if you close the poker room and replace it with slots, it doesn't guarantee a casino will make more money, it only means they will have more slots. is every slot machine in use 100% of the time in a casino?
a smart casino operator knows that while a poker room may not be profitable by itself, it is important to offer poker since it can draw in other play in the casino. example, husband plays poker, wife is dumping money in a slot while he plays. just the other day, i saw a player give his wife over $200 in a 2 hour period to keep her busy playing slots while he played cards. i see this happen all the time, but the poker room doesn't get credit for the slot win, but if it hadn't been for the poker room, maybe the couple would have played in another casino that did offer poker.
so called "free drinks" cost the casino a lot more than operating a poker room. should the casino quit giving away drinks to players? how about the swimming pool, maybe they ought to close that down too, should they fill that place with slots also?
with regard to tipping, it's a personal decision by the player, i tip well, but i hate to hear dealers whine about tipping, it's like listening to a bad beat story.
with regard to tipping, it's a personal decision by the player, i tip well, but i hate to hear dealers whine about tipping, it's like listening to a bad beat story.
100% agreed on both counts - it is a personal choice, fortunately enough people make the choice to tip decently and make the job worthwhile but to have to listen a dealer (or anyone working for tips) whine about tips is just as bad a bad beat story, if not worse.
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 2916 Location: Seattle area
BentonBlakeman wrote:
Also, for everyone saying that it's the cost of playing and if you can't afford to tip just quit playing, remember that the poker room is there for the players. The casino does not care if they tip or not, they just want them there. It is a players prerogative to tip.
Yes and no, but mostly no. I don't own a casino but I do own two restaurants, a business that operates on the same model of paying minimum wage and expecting customers to tip so the staff can earn a living.
It's customers' prerogative how they tip -- some might tip 10%, others might tip 20% in general -- but if they collectively don't tip at all it's a big problem. We had a long running problem at one of the restaurants where we weren't as busy as we hoped and waitstaff didn't get tipped "enough" (not because of poor tippers just lack of tippers) and thus turnover was high. High turnover led to inexperienced staff which lessened the customer experience, which made it hard to grow customer base and thus get staff tips and keep them.
If the players at poker room X decided (to pull from another post) "we aren't tipping since they raised the rake to $5", the poker room would be in big trouble. Dealers would quit left and right and they couldn't hire anyone at $9/hr flat. And while it's easy to say "pay more" the truth is they can't print money to pay higher salaries. Running a poker room at a huge loss is a great way for the poker room manager to find himself on the street. We might not care how/if an individual customer tips, but our business model depends on collective, consistent tipping by customers.
That said, the one really good point I've seen being made is that tipping doesn't scale well. Benton noted at the stakes he plays tipping $1-2/hand is a small percentage of his return. I imagine at 5-10 NL or 10-20 limit, tipping $1 is fairly insignificant. But as OP noted, playing tough small stakes limit games, $1/hand is 25-30% of his "profit".
On a slight side, Benton (or anyone else), what do players tip at really large stakes, where $1000 pots are the norm?
On a slight side, Benton (or anyone else), what do players tip at really large stakes, where $1000 pots are the norm?
Generally the largest games are not known as being good for tips. I am not sure why it is but they are not considered money makers. On top of it many dealers consider it more stressful so they they hate to deal the game because they feel they have to work harder take more abuse for very little return.
On the other hand you do occasionally hear stories of very large tips out of these games.
I have dealt some bigger games and while I have generally made some money doing so ..... It has always been less than I would typically make in the small and medium games.
_________________ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -- George Orwell
Also, for everyone saying that it's the cost of playing and if you can't afford to tip just quit playing, remember that the poker room is there for the players. The casino does not care if they tip or not, they just want them there. It is a players prerogative to tip.
Yes and no, but mostly no. I don't own a casino but I do own two restaurants, a business that operates on the same model of paying minimum wage and expecting customers to tip so the staff can earn a living.
It's customers' prerogative how they tip -- some might tip 10%, others might tip 20% in general -- but if they collectively don't tip at all it's a big problem. We had a long running problem at one of the restaurants where we weren't as busy as we hoped and waitstaff didn't get tipped "enough" (not because of poor tippers just lack of tippers) and thus turnover was high. High turnover led to inexperienced staff which lessened the customer experience, which made it hard to grow customer base and thus get staff tips and keep them.
If the players at poker room X decided (to pull from another post) "we aren't tipping since they raised the rake to $5", the poker room would be in big trouble. Dealers would quit left and right and they couldn't hire anyone at $9/hr flat. And while it's easy to say "pay more" the truth is they can't print money to pay higher salaries. Running a poker room at a huge loss is a great way for the poker room manager to find himself on the street. We might not care how/if an individual customer tips, but our business model depends on collective, consistent tipping by customers.
That said, the one really good point I've seen being made is that tipping doesn't scale well. Benton noted at the stakes he plays tipping $1-2/hand is a small percentage of his return. I imagine at 5-10 NL or 10-20 limit, tipping $1 is fairly insignificant. But as OP noted, playing tough small stakes limit games, $1/hand is 25-30% of his "profit".
On a slight side, Benton (or anyone else), what do players tip at really large stakes, where $1000 pots are the norm?
I see your point, but the point i was trying to make is that I feel it's unfair for people in this thread who don't think original poster is tipping enough to tell him to stop playing if he can't "afford" to tip. I just think stating we don't think he tips according to protocol is good enough and it's kind of high and mighty to tell him to stop playing.
As for the bigger games, most players tip $1 to $2 a hand. I have never seen a huge tip just because the games bigger. Outside of a jackpot hand, my personal biggest tip was $50 in about a 6k pot where I got in with a set vs an open ended straight and flush draw. I normally don't tip based on pot size, but (and this will sound bad) this dealer and I are friendly but he is also dual rate and works the floor 2 days a week. My tip insured that he'd always give me all the comps I wanted.
I see your point, but the point i was trying to make is that I feel it's unfair for people in this thread who don't think original poster is tipping enough to tell him to stop playing if he can't "afford" to tip. I just think stating we don't think he tips according to protocol is good enough and it's kind of high and mighty to tell him to stop playing.
I don't disagree with this ..... but I'm not certain I saw anybody tell him to stop playing.
My suggestion is that with his return on 2000 hours of play .... He should stop thinking of himself as a professional player. He should consider himself a recreational player. And if he is relying on this for income he is shortchanging himself because certainly he could make more money in any number of other ways.
But that is not the same thing as saying don't play.
_________________ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -- George Orwell
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