Excalibur PokerTek Conversion/Reversion Discussion

[LasVegasMichael]

This thread is for discussing the decision of Excalibur to convert to PokerTek PokerPro electronic tables in August of 2008, then decide in June 2009 to convert back to a traditional poker room.

This thread was originally the news thread to discuss the decision of Excalibur to revert back to a traditional card room.

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Excalibur made the controversial decision to go all electronic back in August of 2008, allowing it to be the first casino in Las Vegas to offer PokerTek PokerPro electronic tables as its sole means of offering live poker to its customers. Excalibur took out the electronic tables on July 5th, and will return to a traditional poker room on July 10th, 2009.

Lou White, former PokerTek CEO and current board member, posted publicly in the Excalibur poker room thread that it is indeed true that the tables are coming out of Excalibur and moving to a different (undisclosed) card room in Las Vegas.

Excalibur has operated a live cardroom continuously since the hotel casino opened in 1990.

[psand]

I hope that MGM treats these displaced machines better than they treated their poker dealers.

Maybe they can get them retrained as grocery scanners so that they may be able to make a living after they get replaced by humans.

[jjmaximum]

It's like watching Wargames (for us 'older' folks).

[htown]

omfg, can u say xmas in june !!!!!
always stay at the X, and loved their poker room, worst trip we ever had last year when we could not play there, tried the auto tables for 30 mins, worst 30 mins in my life in vegas that i can never get back, going again in october, and if this comes true, i will be in heaven !!!!

[LasVegasMichael]

A new update has been added to the OP, and a news item has been posted on the main page.

[psand]

AVP has been notified that the tables are being taken out of Excalibur and moved to a different (undisclosed) venue within Las Vegas.

maybe Von's ? maybe I was right about retraining them as grocery scanners.

[cokeboy99]

Any speculation about a date when live poker with dealers will be back and machines gone??

[LasVegasMichael]

The OP has been updated with the news that it is true that the machines are being pulled out of Excalibur and moved elsewhere, as confirmed by Lou White, former Ptek CEO and current board member.

Lou did not disclose where the machines are moving to.

AVP has been informed that dealers approximate start date back at Excalibur is July 15th.

[Nash_equilibria]

I hope that it will be ASAP so I can end my boycott of Excalibur and play there during the WSOP.

Any speculation about a date when live poker with dealers will be back and machines gone??

[cokeboy99]

Any word on how this will affect tournaments and cash games? Just curious as I will be staying there in early December and trying to plan my trip as well as set a budget.

[thisguy74]

I used to play at the ex everytime I went to vegas because it was a relatively newbie room and I am not confident in my play. I am going out on the 19th of July to the 23rd. Do you think the tables will be up and going at that point or would they still be doing some retraining and not opening the room until later?

[Railbird]

... I can end my boycott of Excalibur...

Exactly that.

[oldpokerdealer]

used to work there has been confirmed we will be reopening on july 10th will provide more details as the become availible.......

[goldenrat]

It was retarded of Excalibur to replace live with machines in the first place. It would have and still make sense to put these machines in casinos which currently do not have live rooms. That way, every casino would have some sort of multi-player poker available.

[gowhitesox99]

they should go half and half IMO.. I loved the elec tables and I enjoy dealer tables also. THey go half and half and its a win win!!!

Or slap those babies down in the middle of NYNY, that'd be ok too!!

[Railbird]

they should go half and half IMO.. I loved the elec tables and I enjoy dealer tables also. THey go half and half and its a win win!!!

Or slap those babies down in the middle of NYNY, that'd be ok too!!

With the MGM-Mirage management having stated in print media that they have learned players have a preference for live dealers I would be a little surprised to see them undertake this experiment again at NYNY. Who knows, maybe the tables will resurface there, but if I were betting I would bet on a non-MGM-MIrage owned casino. Maybe Harrah's will pick them up and give it a go at Paris???

Regarding the discussion of machines becoming the dominant face of poker in Las Vegas. I don't think that will ever happen. If it does it will simply be in the wake of real pokers death for some other reason. Machines do not have mass appeal. They appeal to some, but not to enough to make them viable outside of the no-alternative settings.

[TheJacob]

With the MGM-Mirage management having stated in print media that they have learned players have a preference for live dealers I would be a little surprised to see them undertake this experiment again at NYNY. Who knows, maybe the tables will resurface there, but if I were betting I would bet on a non-MGM-MIrage owned casino. Maybe Harrah's will pick them up and give it a go at Paris???

What type of poker room a majority of poker players prefer isn't relevant.
That would be like someone who runs a pizza place surveying its customers and finding most of them prefer pepperoni! Were only serving pepperoni now guys!

Point is...it doesn't matter what your customers "prefer". It only matters which products have enough interest to survive.

Now I know plenty of you will say "Well there isn't enough interest then." So las vegas can't support a single electronic room? I think they can.

Will that mean an electronic room with 6 tables or a live room adding a few electronic tables...I don't know. I do know there is demand for some .50/$1 games and low buyin tournaments.

Saying that isn't true is a blatant lie.

[mauihaole]

they should go half and half IMO.. I loved the elec tables and I enjoy dealer tables also. THey go half and half and its a win win!!!

Or slap those babies down in the middle of NYNY, that'd be ok too!!

Think about whether its logical to go half and half. Majority of poker players prefer live dealers when presented with a choice. Therefore if you went half and half in a room, the majority of players will play on the live tables and you would find this type of room having trouble starting and keeping 1 game going on the e-tables. I've said in the past that these tables have a place filling the niche of micro-stakes, small buy-in tourneys and sngs, and mixed games. Excal's problem was they didn't want this to be their niche or they didn't recognize the potential. This can be seen with them increasing the rake to $4 on the .50/1 game which was very popular while keeping the rake at $3 on 1/2 to try and lure players to play the bigger game (bigger game=more rake). They tried to start mixed game tournaments later on, but they weren't promoted heavily. I think an e-room can be successful if it was managed and promoted correctly and towards the right players, something Excal failed to do.

[Railbird]

With the MGM-Mirage management having stated in print media that they have learned players have a preference for live dealers I would be a little surprised to see them undertake this experiment again at NYNY. Who knows, maybe the tables will resurface there, but if I were betting I would bet on a non-MGM-MIrage owned casino. Maybe Harrah's will pick them up and give it a go at Paris???

What type of poker room a majority of poker players prefer isn't relevant.
That would be like someone who runs a pizza place surveying its customers and finding most of them prefer pepperoni! Were only serving pepperoni now guys!

Point is...it doesn't matter what your customers "prefer". It only matters which products have enough interest to survive.

Now I know plenty of you will say "Well there isn't enough interest then." So las vegas can't support a single electronic room? I think they can.

Will that mean an electronic room with 6 tables or a live room adding a few electronic tables...I don't know. I do know there is demand for some .50/$1 games and low buyin tournaments.

Saying that isn't true is a blatant lie.

Whatever the major casino corporations perceive to be relevant in their decision making is relevant. Maybe erroneously so, but it will factor into the decisions being made. If MGM-Mirage says they are getting rid of an electronic room because poker players prefer live dealers then their perception that poker players prefer live dealers is going to impact their decisions regarding electronic poker.

Interest... preference... what's the difference? I think this is just a matter of semantics. Products don't have interest, people have interest or preference regarding products. Isn't saying consumers have to prefer a product enough for it to be profitable the same as saying consumers have to have enough interest in a product for it to be profitable?

Using the pizza analogy.... If people like pepperoni pizza the market will carry it, if they like mushroom the market will carry it, but if people don't prefer chicken liver on their pizza there is not enough interest in or preference for chicken liver pizza to survive. The same may be true for electronic poker in Las Vegas, maybe not. Maybe electronic poker is like mushroom pizza, enough people have interest in it for it to survive. But maybe electronic poker in Las Vegas is like chicken liver pizza in that it lacks enough interest to be viable.

Again, I really think that electronic poker is a niche market. I don't think enough people will choose it when numerous options for live dealt games exists. I could be wrong though, maybe the machines will be successful somewhere in Las Vegas.

Please don't read any of my comments as angry, I'm arguing the point in good humor

Again I think preference and interest are the same thing and both are relevant because MGM-Mirage sees them as relevant factors in their decision making. I would be very surprised to see the machines pop up in an MGM-Mirage casino.

[The Piker]

Bottom line: Live is more fun than e-tables. I am a 2/4 and low buy-in tourney player and I have done both at Excal over the last 9 months. I would play a $20-$30 buy in tourney on PokerPro, but I would never play 2/4 if I had a choice of playing at a live dealt table. I would go as far to say that I would even ride "The Duece" to a live 2/4 table before I played cash on PokerPro again.
And I hate riding the Deuce.