Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 3912 Location: Manassas, VA
Ha. I had the player tagged as a fish. Against a reg I shove cause he's not giving me an more chips post flop. Regardless it's a shove like always. I suffered from FPS on this hand. It stings right now cause the $100s only run once or twice a night so it's the wrong time for a mistake
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Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:43 pm Posts: 748 Location: Las Vegas
vookenmeister wrote:
Ha. I had the player tagged as a fish. Against a reg I shove cause he's not giving me an more chips post flop. Regardless it's a shove like always. I suffered from FPS on this hand. It stings right now cause the $100s only run once or twice a night so it's the wrong time for a mistake
Maybe that factored in to why you got overly creative. I was playing PLO DONs (and then Fifty50s) at Stars most of the year leading up to Black Friday. I came to regard them as being like basket weaving.
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 3912 Location: Manassas, VA
Yeah. I think it's my own form of tilt (getting too creative). Frustration of runnin bad then over thinking simple spot and gettin too fancy. Need to stick to my basket weaving
Cheers
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 3912 Location: Manassas, VA
DoNs are all about out-folding your opponent. However, make sure you don't take it to extremes and fold the first 44 hands or you won't have enough chips left to survive. I do have somewhat of an excuse as one of the boys woke up so I had to sit out some hands while I made him a bottle and got him out of the crib. Then I had to stack all my games on top of each other (so I could use one hand to click fold or shove without moving the mouse). Once he fell asleep I put him back in the crib and noticed I'd blinded down severely. Fort it was at the end of my session so I didn't have many games left running.
I def play tighter when I have to do this but 44 straight hands folding is too much (even when I miss a lot of hands)especially when I don't have 12-14 tables going. I ended up having to call off with the Q7 on this hand and losing to AJ.
Moral here is that you are better off open shoving without any cards than getting blinded down to less than 6BBs. I'll have to review this session to see if I missed any spots to open shove the previous 10-15 hands.
Side note: the 44/0/0/0 are my stats for tracking. 44 is # of hands played. the 2nd number is VPIP. the third is PFR. the fourth is agg %.
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 3912 Location: Manassas, VA
Chloe1988 wrote:
Vookenmeister, really enjoy your blog and you seem to be one hell of a player.
Not sure I am allowed to post (so sorry in advance if thats the case) since I am in the UK and definatley banned by my Fiancee to go to vegas, but would love some advice.
Been playing for a few years never been a winning player at cash cause of tilt issues, can play for sessions and win but its always that session where suckouts ruin me, so for the last few weeks been playing DON's been winning a decent amount, do you have any places for strategy on DON's as unsure on a few things!
How many buy ins for each level should you have, I presume it more than cash but less than than MTT /sit and go's
Also in later stages what sort of stack do you push fold with always gone with 10bb's but that seems to be a lot when there is 2 before the cash
Sorry it seems basic.
All the best in the upcoming months, keep winning!
hey... Thx for the kind words. I am always happy to talk strat openly.
I actually started a thread here dedicated to discussing strategy for DoNs. Here is the link -> viewtopic.php?f=35&t=17182
Inside that link I reference a 2+2 thread. Suggest you check that out.
10BBs is a perfect guiding point for shoving. I would up to 15BBs for bubble spots with hands like 1010-QQ, AJ-AK that you really don't want to bet and fold to a 3bet but would prefer just winning the blinds with due to the value of ICM. In other words, if you have AQ you don't want anyone calling with 1010 and vice versa because you don't want to race. So you are better off just open shoving a stack up to 15BBs as opposed to raising smaller and calling a 3bet or raising smaller and folding.
Now... there are some spots with a stack less than 10BBs where you can raise/fold instead of shove. They are rare. Spots like you are on the button and the blinds are very tight. You can raise any hand to 2.25BBs and fold to a shove. There are other spots as well. If you have some hands that make you think please post there here in the thread and ask!! It helps me get better too
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 3912 Location: Manassas, VA
Per the buyin question... I'm not exactly sure as it's been a long time since that was an issue. Right now I play as high as anyone will join me (the $20s run regularly, the $50s run about 3-4 an hour, the $100s are rare).
DoNs are the lowest of variance so you need the least amount of buyins of any cash or tourney that you play. I would think 50 buyins is enough but this is really hard to answer as it really depends on what your ROI is. Gist is if you are a winning player at DoNs you prob just need 50 buy ins. The level of play gets much harder from the $10s to the $20s. I've never played lower at Merge so I don't know. I only played briefly at Bodog below the $10s (a month maybe when I started with just $200). I couldn't take any chances then.
Go read that 2+2 article. The next step would be to try to understand proper push/fold strategy near the bubble. Some of this just comes purely from experience. I've "learned" good spots that I can't easily describe here. Another good tactic is to plug bubble hands into this site. http://www.pokericmcalculator.com/icmizer/#default
And ask questions!!! Review hands!!!
Good luck
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am Posts: 3912 Location: Manassas, VA
Here are two hands I semi-butchered a couple nights ago. Both of them were due to misreads of my opponent.
The first hand I made the mistake of overestimating my opponent. I actually recognized him from Full Tilt. He was a winning player but doesn't play the DoNs a lot. I assume that in this spot he would realize that he has to call very tight (because if he loses we will become the short stack). I def did not think he would ever call with A5. Of course, I had been card down the whole tourney and the only way I stayed alive was by shoving into him SB vs BB a couple times. Still though it's a bad call by him as he is almost never going to be better than a 3 to 2 favorite. I don't majorly mind my shove with any two cards since in the tourney plays out with everyone folding the blinds will hit me twice and blind me off before the shorty blinds out (but if I knew he was calling this wide I would've waited for a better spot)
On the 2nd hand, I should've just folded. It was another opponent who I had marked as a break even reg. I really thought he would've just open shoved his big hands here. I saw the limp and thought he'd fold to my shove almost always. I should've just folded and not taken the chance.
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Merge) Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, April 20, 10:28:04 ET 2012 Table 50 NL Holdem Double Up 10 Handed (53691566) (Real Money) Seat 5 is the button Seat 1: Player1 ( $5213.00 USD ) - VPIP: 34, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 2.9, Hands: 744 Seat 3: Player3 ( $1880.00 USD ) - VPIP: 15, PFR: 8, 3B: 2, AF: 3.7, Hands: 2488 Seat 5: Player5 ( $3780.00 USD ) - VPIP: 22, PFR: 7, 3B: 0, AF: 9.0, Hands: 152 Seat 7: Hero ( $1397.00 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 2, AF: 3.1, Hands: 163465 Seat 8: Player8 ( $1850.00 USD ) - VPIP: 11, PFR: 7, 3B: 3, AF: 2.6, Hands: 1025 Seat 9: Player9 ( $880.00 USD ) - VPIP: 13, PFR: 7, 3B: 2, AF: 4.4, Hands: 1244 Player1 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Player3 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Player5 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Hero posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Player8 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Player9 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Hero posts small blind [$200.00 USD]. Player8 posts big blind [$400.00 USD]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Hero [ 5s 6h ] Player9 folds Player1 folds Player3 folds Player5 folds Hero raises [$1182.00 USD] Player8 calls [$982.00 USD] Hero shows [5s, 6h ] Player8 shows [4h, Ah ] ** Dealing Flop ** [ As, Ac, 3s ] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 6c ] ** Dealing River ** [ Jd ] Player8 wins $2854.00 USD from main pot
---
***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (Merge) Tourney Hand NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, April 20, 11:27:07 ET 2012 Table 20 NL Holdem Double Up 10 Handed (53696725) (Real Money) Seat 8 is the button Seat 2: Player2 ( $2630.00 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 10, 3B: 3, AF: 3.3, Hands: 3630 Seat 5: Player5 ( $1395.00 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 2, 3B: 3, AF: 2.0, Hands: 93 Seat 7: Player7 ( $2775.00 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 12, 3B: 3, AF: 2.1, Hands: 2300 Seat 8: Player8 ( $2970.00 USD ) - VPIP: 10, PFR: 8, 3B: 1, AF: 13.0, Hands: 1305 Seat 9: Hero ( $2085.00 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 2, AF: 3.1, Hands: 163465 Seat 10: Player10 ( $3145.00 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 9, 3B: 2, AF: 3.1, Hands: 4971 Player2 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Player5 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Player7 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Player8 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Hero posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Player10 posts ante of [$15.00 USD]. Hero posts small blind [$200.00 USD]. Player10 posts big blind [$400.00 USD]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Hero [ Ts Td ] Player2 calls [$400.00 USD] Player5 folds Player7 folds Player8 folds Hero raises [$1870.00 USD] Player10 folds Player2 calls [$1670.00 USD] Player2 shows [Kd, Ks ] Hero shows [Ts, Td ] ** Dealing Flop ** [ 4d, 6h, Kh ] ** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ] ** Dealing River ** [ 7c ] Player2 wins $4630.00 USD from main pot
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