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Board index > Poker Strategy Discussion > No Limit Hold'em Cash Game Strategy


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Hitting Nut Flush on the Turn out of position



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timpramas
 Post subject: Re: Hitting Nut Flush on the Turn out of position
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Full House

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:16 am
Posts: 827
Location: St. Paul, MN
"What do you think of V checking behind me on the turn? Do you think that was a mistake on his part?"

If V thought you made your flush on the turn, then checking behind to get a free card to try to draw out on you was the right play. If V didn't suspect you had the flush, generally checking behind with a set and no flush re-draw would be a mistake because V would be giving a free card to an opponent who still might be drawing to a flush.

That reinforces the points others made in this thread about disguising your draws though I doubt this particular hand would have ended up differently.

Congrats on the profitable trip and overcoming this cooler.


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King Kashue
 Post subject: Re: Hitting Nut Flush on the Turn out of position
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Flush
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:35 am
Posts: 326
robvegaspoker wrote:
You say you want to play draws as cheaply as possible, but that I should have bet the draw on the flop? Is that contradictory?


No, since you should expect to see a continuation bet out of the initial raiser - a bet you're going to have to call to see the turn. Unless he's got a monster and re-raises, you're going to see one bet on the flop; making it your bet gives you more flexibility.

Quote:
What do you think of V checking behind me on the turn? Do you think that was a mistake on his part?


Nope. He's got the set, but he's putting you on the flush. If he bets, he risks a check raise that he can't call; he's not going to give you that opportunity, bluff or not. Waiting for the river gives him the leverage to move if he improves and gives him options acting in position.


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fightingillini
 Post subject: Re: Hitting Nut Flush on the Turn out of position
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Full House

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:36 am
Posts: 665
robvegaspoker wrote:
fightingillini wrote:
Regarding playing draws, the key in NL is disguising your draw. Way too many players in 1-2 check-call their draws OOP, and their hand becomes telegraphed. Betting your draw there allows you a chance to steal the pot later if your flop bet gets called. In general at a 1-2, I play draws cheaply as possible, until I hit the draw, then I try to play a big pot.


Great analysis for me to absorb (all of what you said, but I just included in the quote one thing in particular I want to ask you about). Thanks again.

You say you want to play draws as cheaply as possible, but that I should have bet the draw on the flop? Is that contradictory? Or is betting there sort of a "blocking bet" (in addition to a semi-bluff)? And when you say betting allows me to steal the pot later if my flop bet is called, you mean if I miss the draw, right?

What do you think of V checking behind me on the turn? Do you think that was a mistake on his part?


Not at all. I classify a flush draw or a eight out straight draw like a top pair type hand. I play it for a small pot, which can certainly mean betting it on the flop or the turn (or in a limped in pot, maybe both the flop and the turn). If you bet your draw on the flop and get raised, now you're pretty certain that you HAVE to hit the draw to win.....so it becomes a pot odds/implied odds play.

And yes, betting the flop gives you a chance to steal on a later street, since your bet can be interpreted as a made hand. As I said before, check-calling OOP on the flop and turn just screams a draw. And betting the flop then checking the turn still gives you a chance to steal on the river since that will be a common line for a TPTK type hand.

This actual hand is a little different than a typical draw, since you have 2 overs and the flush draw, so you don't mind playing a good sized pot here......you're actually betting this flop for value.

V definitely didn't make a mistake by checking behind you.....see timpramas and King Kashue's posts on that......+1 to both.


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robvegaspoker
 Post subject: Re: Hitting Nut Flush on the Turn out of position
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:14 am 
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Flush

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:25 am
Posts: 479
Location: Southern California
Thanks again to all for the great insight and comments. I will reread all your thoughts again a few times before the next time I play so I am better prepared to play draws.

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